What do you want to talk about?
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Mortar.
I have no idea what I want to
talk about.
Oh, I remembered something.
I was browsing the internet one
day, as one does.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.
I might have been browsing the
Book of Faces.
And I came across this listing
for a band that I liked coming
to Connecticut in October.
And this band's out of
California, and they generally
don't widely travel for the
most part.
Like, this is... I have not
seen them have a schedule like
this.
And so I jumped on it.
I was like, heck yeah.
So, shout out to the band Steam
Powered Giraffe.
They're definitely not what you
would think of as like your
average music group, I would
say.
They do everything from like va
udeville to electronic to
everything in between.
And it's all wrapped up in this
wrapper of mime slash acting.
Because their whole premise is
they're a bunch of steam-
powered robots that were built
in the 1890s.
It's a uniquely creative thing,
though, to do.
And I was actually thinking
about this the other day.
I used to get these really,
really crazy ideas, over-the-
top ideas.
Back when I was religious, I
used to teach confirmation
group at my church.
And confirmation is like the
teenage level of, I am fully
accepting this faith for myself
, even though my parents are
making me do it.
You've never been through
confirmation.
You're welcome.
But I remember when I was
younger, and this has happened
less as an adult, you don't get
these sparks as often.
But, like, here's an example,
though.
And I'm choosing this on
purpose.
I remember we would do these
retreats.
And it's like an entire day
event to talk about religious
stuff and try to make it fun.
And really high-end retreats
usually have, you know, some
kind of skit or some kind of,
like, story wrapped around it,
even though it's, like, rud
imentary and fake.
But I remember listening to the
score for Back to the Future.
You know, that big, like, main
theme from Back to the Future.
And it sparked all these ideas.
It would be really cool if,
like, I could find a control
panel that looks like the Back
to the Future one, but I could
shove it in my, like, back then
I think I either had a Mercury
or a Saturn.
And, like, have the flux
capacitor in the back.
And then we could do this whole
wraparound where, like, we've
come from the future.
And so, like, we've come from
the future and we're showing up
at this retreat.
And, like, to have a fog
machine with, like, a strobe
light in the kitchen where,
like, for some reason we show
up in the kitchen after the
theme music is played.
And then at the end to have,
like, a video where it's in the
parking lot of the church and
the car, like, hits 88 miles
per hour and disappears.
And there's the flames along
the church parking lot and all
of that.
And, of course, I'd have to do
all of that in compositing
because you're not going to set
fire in the church parking lot.
And, you know, you think about
that idea and you're like, that
's fucking absurd.
Like, that's an insane amount
of effort to spend on a stupid
retreat just for a couple of
short video things and a moment
where you have a fog machine
and some strobe lights.
But it was one of those
creativity moments that I think
you experience a lot more when
you're young.
And I would like to experience
more as I'm older.
My friends and I, we've talked
about this before.
I was super excited because I
was able to do a lightsaber
effect.
Back in 2003, I was, this is
the beginning of the dawn of
digital being accessible to the
average person.
Digital, like, effects and
stuff.
The fact that I was able to do
a lightsaber effect, not even
well, just do it, was enough
for my buddy Josh to be like,
oh, I've got ideas we could do
with this.
Now, to be fair, the ideas were
the ideas of teenagers slash
early 20s people.
And the quality of the ideas
were the same as teenagers
slash early 20s people.
But still, it turned into a
three-year project of us just
doing stupid shit and putting
it on video.
And then putting it all
together and being creative and
having fun with that.
And then that eventually led to
us doing a public access show.
And I kind of miss that
creativity where something
sparks an idea in you and you
just get to run with that idea.
Because when you get into the
workforce, you can get a great
idea.
And the minute you get that
great idea, you then go to your
boss and be like, boss, I got
this great idea.
And they're like, well, did you
think about this?
Did you think about that?
And then, of course, what it
ultimately comes down to is, is
it what's best for the business
?
No.
Is it in the budget for the
business?
And it's like, yeah, but this
is a really good idea.
It could really change the way
that we do things.
It would be better for our
customers.
It would be better for us
internally.
Yeah, but do we make more money
?
Exactly.
Do we make more money?
I started taking things on
creatively, doing music, doing
programming.
Like, you already like doing
the animation and the drawing.
Like, I know you like that
aspect of things.
The fact that you have an idea
and you just run with it.
That is something that I think
that you should hold on to.
Maybe not in work when you get
into the workforce, but always
find a way to hold on to that.
Because that creative spark is
something that I think is
missing in average life.
Because everything's put in
front of you.
And creativity sucks.
Yes, you heard me right.
Creativity sucks.
I'm not that creative.
No, no, no, no.
We're not playing this game
again.
I'm not that creative.
I'm just an animator.
I just steal all the other
ideas.
I take what other artists have
done and I build off of it.
Therefore, I'm not a real
artist.
Do you know what artists for
all of, like, eternity have
done?
Taken from other artists and
built off of it.
The greatest art builds off of
other art.
So, like, Ghostbusters.
You might say, oh, Ghostbusters
.
That was a completely unique
idea.
These are comedians.
They built off of the comedy of
other comedians.
In fact, they flat out said
that they framed things.
Especially, like, in Ghostb
usters 2.
It was framed like, I want to
say, like, Abbott and Costello.
Or, like, the Three Stooges.
Which built their comedy off of
other things.
Dan Aykroyd got the idea in
part because his, like, great-
great-grandfather was part of
the spiritualist movement.
So, there, and actually did
investigations of ghosts and
whatnot.
So, the point that I'm making
is creativity, even if it's
based off of something else, it
's still creativity.
But, as you know, as an artist,
and I know you don't call
yourself an artist or a
creative or...
What's the term that they use
now?
There's creator.
Content creator.
And that's for, like, YouTuber.
Content YouTuber.
Whatever.
The thing about creativity is
it sucks.
So, what I mean by creative...
Being creative sucks.
And creativity sucks.
It's not that creativity sucks.
In of itself.
What I'm saying...
Doing it sucks.
Because...
That initial spark is lightning
.
That initial spark of a great
idea is like, oh my gosh, this
is a great idea.
But then you have to do the
work to make the idea happen.
And that's not easy.
Unless you use AI.
Then it's easy, but it also
sucks.
So...
Like, for example.
You get an idea for a music
track.
Even if it's based off of music
from a game that already exists
.
Or even if it's based off of
music that somebody else
created.
Guess what?
You still have to...
Relay out...
All of the notes.
You still have to...
Then add your own twist on it.
And remix all of the
instruments so there's
instrumental balance.
And stuff.
In the case of the stupid
little Star Wars project that
my friends and I did.
Because we had that genius
spark.
Because I was able to make a
lightsaber.
Well, like I said, that project
took three years.
The first day of filming, it
was interesting.
So first of all, my buddy Josh
went and wrote the script.
Which took time.
And some of the script was
there and some of it was improv
.
Alright?
But he did write a script.
And that took time.
But then getting a bunch of
teenagers slash early 20s
people...
At the same place.
At the same place.
At the same time.
For free.
That alone...
Is a pain.
Getting people in the same room
.
Is difficult.
Then, as Josh discovered, and
as we discovered...
Getting people to stay focused.
Once you get them there.
Is difficult.
Mm-hmm.
And then filming the stuff.
Or recording the stuff.
Is difficult because...
Guess what?
People mess up on their lines.
People didn't memorize things
well.
People didn't come across well
in the thing that you're making
.
And I'm talking specifically
about this larger project.
Technical issues happened.
The battery wasn't charged on
the camera.
The audio was bad.
Because...
Well, back then the audio was
always bad.
Because we didn't care about
audio.
We were just using the on-
camera audio.
Why?
Who cares about audio?
We're just filming something.
We're doing this for fun.
But think about this for a
moment.
A project that started off as a
fun little...
Oh, look.
I can make lightsabers.
Turned into three years of pain
and suffering.
And let me tell you.
The first time doing a lights
aber is exciting.
But doing it for longer
stretches...
That are minutes long...
Is no longer fun.
And just trying to get the
thing finished...
Is no longer fun.
And editing the video is no
longer fun.
It is...
Pain.
And sustaining that level of
effort.
It's just like when we do this
podcast.
The idea was fun.
The doing it is not always fun.
As we've discovered in this
recording session.
We've been recording for 35-40
minutes...
For something that's probably
going to make 20 minutes.
And I think that...
Even for you...
Working on music.
Working on animation.
These are things that are not
...
Instant gratification.
Is my point.
The creative spark needs to
start a fire...
That then burns down to these
coals...
That are enough to sustain the
effort.
What keeps you going...
When you've been working on a
mod for...
Two years?
Well...
Which one are you referring to?
Case in point...
What keeps you going...
When you've been working on
multiple mods...
For multiple years?
It has to do it.
But...
Why do you have to do it?
Because it would be rude not to
.
So you have to do it because
other people...
There's an expectation that
other people want you to do it.
Even though...
They've clearly shown they don
't care.
Hmm.
So...
For you...
It's...
The driving force for you is...
It needs to get done.
Hmm.
I think...
Ultimately...
That's true for many things for
me.
Oh well...
It needs to get done.
It needs to get done.
But...
I think it's also...
Again...
That initial spark of the idea.
Like...
Going back to that...
That Star Wars thing.
There's still a scene that I
keep trying to work on...
20 years later.
Because I'm unhappy with it.
There's no logical reason for
me to do it...
Except for the fact that I'm
unhappy with it.
So sometimes it's that personal
drive.
But...
I...
I think though...
The point...
Is that creativity...
Needs to be encouraged.
And even when it...
Isn't something that...
Can happen at work...
In the way that you want.
Like...
I can still be creative at work
...
Within the boundaries of work.
I don't have an issue.
I've learned to adapt.
But...
I love the idea...
Like...
I have an idea for a podcast...
I'd like to start...
With my friend at some point.
I would love to do...
Take like...
Public domain books...
And do full on...
Audio drama...
Style...
Readings of them.
Where you're doing...
An audio book...
But...
You're adding sound effects.
You're adding music.
You're...
You're doing all these things.
Like...
I love that idea.
I hate doing it.
And what do I mean by that?
I...
I...
I hate the idea...
Of going through all the effort
...
To edit that.
I truly do.
It pains me.
Even...
Like I said...
Doing this podcast.
I love doing this podcast with
you.
I love the idea of doing this
podcast with you.
But sometimes...
I really hate editing it.
It really sucks.
Do you ever have moments like
that?
I guess...
Where you have that initial
creative spark...
And you just...
Run with it.
What do you mean?
You have an idea...
And you're like...
I'm gonna go make this happen.
That's what I've been trying to
do...
For three years.
And...
And sir...
If you had to boil down...
One word to describe...
Your experience being creative
...
What would that one word be?
Con.
Thank you.
That's what I was looking for.
True creativity is pain.
I mean...
It's more of needing other
people to do it.
But also pain.
Actually...
There's a podcast I used to
listen to...
Um...
I'm trying to remember...
The name of it now.
Because I really...
I really liked it.
And now I can't remember it.
I don't know what it was called
.
What?
It was called Cheese Cuisinella
.
No.
No.
But...
I just know that the...
YouTube creator...
Pushing Up Roses is part of it.
So...
If you look up Pushing Up Roses
...
You'll...
You'll find...
This Gaming Podcast.
And I can't remember the name
of it.
And I'm sorry.
But...
The...
The...
They usually...
End their podcast episodes with
the following phrase.
Which is...
Podcast is art.
And art is suffer.
And I think...
The problem...
Even that AI...
Actually, especially that AI
brings into things.
Is...
Creativity and art...
Is not...
Instant gratification.
It is the opposite...
Of instant gratification.
It is...
You pull yourself across...
A bed of hot coals...
That has glass in it.
And crawl...
And grind yourself...
Against this bed of hot coals
...
With glass in it.
Until you get to the other side
.
And then maybe...
Just maybe...
The creative thing that you
started...
Looks...
Almost...
Or feels...
Almost...
Like the idea that you had in
your head.
Maybe.
Or it spontaneously combusts...
And you get nothing.
Yeah, you've had that happen a
few times.
I've had that happen many times
.
But the fact is...
Is that...
If you want to be creative...
First of all...
You have to nurture that
creativity...
Which is very hard to do...
Because all creative things
take effort.
And you have to...
Be intentional about doing it.
Which...
Is hard.
But then...
You have to find the driving
force...
To pull yourself forward.
And make the time to do that.
And keep doing it.
And that's part of the reason
why we like...
I like to think that we keep
doing this podcast.
It's just the act of creating.
Even if sometimes we have
nothing to talk about.
And...
Like this entire episode has
been...
Nothing but pain...
Nothing but pain...
Bringing ourselves through this
conversation.
If I'm being honest.
It's like...
Well let's talk about music.
Well shit.
That didn't work.
Well let's talk about...
The...
How music is constructed.
And the different...
Well that didn't work.
Well...
Wait a minute.
This reminded me of being
creative in general.
Ah!
Shit.
Now we have something.
Now granted I'm doing most of
the talking.
But still.
It's...
Not...
Easy...
To do this shit.
And that doesn't mean don't do
it.
I will say this.
Now you...
You've worked on multiple game
mods.
And if I'm being honest.
None of which have been
completed.
Not...
Not blaming you for that.
Because...
Your teammates are shit.
If I'm being honest.
And you have...
Designed...
Animations.
Sprites.
Done...
Done...
Programming.
Done...
I mean it's not really...
It's not really programming
that much.
Even so.
You've done mapping of music to
...
Graphics.
Okay.
At the end of the day.
Despite the fact that you...
Have yet to get to a finished
project.
That you've...
Redone from scratch.
A bunch of animations to make
them better...
Multiple times.
Multiple times.
And you've done music.
And sometimes you've even rec
reated the music.
After all of the pain and
suffering...
And effort...
Would you say...
That...
It's still worth it?
I don't know.
So do you walk away with a
feeling of...
Do you know what?
I did something.
Well do you mean when it's done
?
Or...
No I mean even now.
Like you look at the progress
of your animation.
And you say...
Wow you know what?
My first version...
As good as I thought it was at
the time.
That first version was shit.
Compared to what I could do now
.
I mean I didn't think it was
amazing then.
Right.
But I'm saying though...
Even if you didn't think it was
amazing then...
You have a certain level of
satisfaction...
In the fact that...
You've improved.
I guess.
Or that you're still creating
stuff...
After all this time.
So I think that the thing...
That's awesome about creativity
...
Is after all that pain and
suffering...
You look back and you're able
to say...
Huh.
Like I did something.
Maybe it's not great.
But you know what?
Look.
I made that thing.
And that's...
That's the important thing.
Is hey.
Looking back.
You know what?
This podcast might not be great
.
This podcast recording...
Right now.
Which...
Again.
These are not really podcast
recordings.
They're conversation recordings
.
That we then cobbled together
into podcasts.
But you know what?
This might have started as a
rocky road.
But we finally found a groove.
That's kind of satisfying.
And if this was at all
satisfying for you...
feedback@nontopical.com
Let us know.
Or if this was valuable to you
...
In any particular way, shape,
or form.
So some value to this.
Yes, please.
Please let us know you're out
there.
You know?
That definitely shows value.
That and...
You know, hey.
As I mentioned, like...
You know what?
We should release this complete
recording at some point.
Just as a demonstration of...
How you take a longer show.
Or a longer conversation.
And have to cut it down
logically.
To make sense.
And be entertaining.
And then you realize.
This is a lot of work.
And so...
You know, tossing us a little
bit of money.
Does make us feel valued as
well.
If you're getting value out of
that.
You can do that at
https://ko-fi.com/nontopical
You can give us a dollar.
Five dollars.
Ten dollars.
Or...
A hypothetical one thousand
dollars.
We would love a hypothetical
one thousand dollars.
Especially in this economy.
So...
If you could toss us some funds
.
We'd appreciate it.
And we appreciate you.
Thank you for listening.
And until next time.
Sir, do you have any final
thoughts?
I don't have any.
Yeah, the brain's pretty much
empty right now.
I've used all the fuel talking.
Bye everybody!