NT 023 - Great TV

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*music*

0:16

Hello sir.

0:17

Hi.

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Alright, so...

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Hopefully you won't be able to tell in the recording, but we're recording this in different circumstances.

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We may be mobile at the moment, if you catch my meaning.

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You could say that we're on a roll.

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You could say that we might be automotive in some way, shape or form.

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Meh.

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This is episode 23, I believe.

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So, once again, we're trying not to fall into the mold of doing the same thing every single episode.

0:56

And, um...

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I thought of a topic that we could discuss, sir.

1:02

That I think would be valuable and entertaining for us at least.

1:08

What's your opinion of the current status of what used to be called television shows?

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Why would I care?

1:16

I never really watched TV.

1:19

Okay.

1:20

Well, that's good.

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Don't worry, we still have some...

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Because we didn't have cable.

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Wisely.

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We don't have cable.

1:29

Wisely.

1:30

Instead of bemoaning the current situation with entertainment, which we've done regarding movies and luckily you don't really have access to do regarding streaming series or TV shows.

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Although you kind of do a little bit too.

1:48

Um...

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Actually, they just did a Muppet show that is supposed to be pretty good.

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But I haven't seen it yet.

1:56

But the point being, there are some shows that we generally agree equal good.

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And these are not modern shows and this could be my own bias from my own life.

2:11

Uh, but...

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I will state for the record that one of these shows, I did not really watch when it was originally airing.

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Nor...

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Did I really appreciate it when I was watching it as a teenager in reruns.

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And we'll talk about that in a minute.

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But some of the shows that Kit and I like...

2:33

Yes, I have a positive bias towards because I've enjoyed them for quite some time.

2:38

But some of them, uh...

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Like, I'm still technically on my first watch through of.

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So, um...

2:46

Shows like M.A.S.H., for example.

2:49

That originally came out before I was even born.

2:54

What was it?

2:55

Like 1977 or something?

2:57

So we have M.A.S.H., uh...

3:01

Star Trek TNG or Next Generation.

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That came out in the late 80s and went into the early 90s.

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And I, as a kid, I kind of saw it a few times.

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But again, it wasn't like a must watch.

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I think I saw the reruns on like our local Fox affiliate as a kid in the afternoons or evenings before the news would come on.

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And so I would sometimes watch them.

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Uh...

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But it wasn't like, you know, a love of the show like I have for it now.

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Uh...

3:39

The A-Team.

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That was another one.

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I didn't see that as a kid.

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I didn't watch it until I was an adult.

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But all of these shows, if you were to put them in front of a modern audience, without them being rebooted, meaning putting the original ones in front of a modern audience, I have a feeling that they would still be enjoyed.

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And I can say that because I've shown them to Kit.

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Yeah.

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And said to him, "Hey, I'm gonna show you this.

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I like these shows, but it will be interesting to see what you think."

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And for the most part, Kit, I would say that you derive amusement from these shows.

4:34

Yeah.

4:35

So what I would like to break down, and also Murder, She Wrote.

4:40

Yeah.

4:41

Now, I showed you one episode of Murder, She Wrote, and it was a crappy episode because it was one of those episodes where it's like, "Oh, it's not really Jessica Fletcher solving the crime.

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It's just her telling a story of someone else solving a crime."

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Which, unfortunately, they do more in some of the later seasons.

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That's probably just due to conflicts with her as an actress, you know, like timing and whatnot.

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But still.

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And you were over at your grandparents' house and ended up watching it and liking it to a certain extent.

5:16

Yeah.

5:17

So, what is it about the quality of these shows?

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What makes these shows fundamentally enjoyable in a way that perhaps certain modern stuff isn't?

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Or, in general, what is it about these shows that makes them undying, so to speak?

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That makes them a classic that isn't going away?

5:45

I don't know.

5:47

You're not making this easy, sir.

5:50

The point is to have opinions on things.

5:53

So, we'll start with the A-Team.

6:00

Alright, we'll just start with the A-Team as an example.

6:03

We haven't watched that for a while, though.

6:05

Yes, but you remember it when it was available on Tubi.

6:09

Don't worry, we will get access again.

6:11

We will be getting the DVDs, sir.

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I will capture those DVDs and put them in digital storage.

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And we will be able to watch them.

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But, point being.

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Let's start with the A-Team.

6:24

What do you like about the A-Team?

6:27

I don't remember that much.

6:28

Look, we just re-watched the movie.

6:32

I know the movie isn't the show, but the stereotypes are exactly, the characters are exactly the same.

6:37

Okay?

6:38

What do you remember liking about the A-Team?

6:44

The movie or the show?

6:46

The show.

6:47

The show.

6:47

Either.

6:47

Uh...

6:48

It's funny.

6:49

Okay, it's funny.

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And then there's action.

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There's action.

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Okay.

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And there's B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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B-A.

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Baracus.

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With pity as the fool.

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But, so, what would you say though, besides the generic kind of high level things of, okay,

7:16

it's action, it's funny, and you like at least one of the characters.

7:22

Hmm.

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But, there are plenty of things where there's action, and it's funny, and you like one of

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the characters, and it's not.

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It doesn't pull those levers for you.

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What, what would you say makes it unique in a way that makes you want to go back to it?

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Why do you want to watch it again?

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What makes it, what makes the A-Team something that you're like, you know what, like, you know

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what, like, damn that's a good show.

7:54

I don't know.

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You don't know.

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So, fine.

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I will start with my rationale behind why I like the A-Team, and then you can add on, and

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then we'll go through the other shows.

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Again, I did not see the A-Team during its original run.

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In fact, I may have been a baby during its original run.

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I didn't even see it in reruns.

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I fully did not see this series until I was an adult.

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And, the thing that I like about this series is, first of all, it's an ensemble series.

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If you just did a show with B.A.

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Baracus, or you just did a show with, you know, Templeton, Faceman, Peck, or you did just a show with Hannibal Smith, or just a show with Mad Dog Murdoch, it wouldn't work.

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It's an ensemble show.

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And I think that not all good shows are ensemble shows.

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But some of them are.

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And this one is.

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It's the interplay between the different personalities, where you would think, oh yeah, these characters, there's no way in real life that people with these personalities would be able to pull this off.

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And for me, the best definition I have for the A-Team is, it's a live action cartoon.

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I mean, yeah, everyone falls with that.

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And, it's so enjoyable because of that.

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It's over the top explosions like cars.

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Stunt guys must have just loved working for this show.

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Because it's nothing but stunts.

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In every episode, you know, the A-Team gets hired.

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You have to go through some shenanigans to hire them because they're on the run from the military.

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And you go through that, and then you introduce the problem.

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And then, ultimately, they end up confronting the bad guys.

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But it goes wrong initially.

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And then you get to the third act, where they build something with scrap that they found around them.

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Usually involving flamethrowers or explosives or machine guns or makeshift nail gun machine gun.

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Whatever it is.

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And they always end up winning.

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And nobody ever dies.

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Except for one episode, there's one guy that dies.

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Hmm. Hmm.

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That's it.

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The bad guys always get picked up by the authorities.

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The A-Team always evades the authorities.

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Even though it's the same thing every single episode.

10:47

It is just a perfect...

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I don't know if it's 30 minutes or 45.

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I can't remember if it was 30 or 60.

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It doesn't matter.

10:56

It's the interplay between the characters and just the sheer joy of seeing these over-the-top explosions and effects that you know don't obey physics.

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And you don't care.

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You just sit there with a smile on your face laughing at the ridiculous interplay between...

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Specifically like we'll say B.A. and Murdoch.

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There's...

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There's...

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The fact that B.A. has to get drugged every other episode because he's afraid of flying because of Murdoch.

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It's just...

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Lots of little things like that.

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So for me...

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That's why...

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That's why...

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I enjoy the A-Team.

11:38

Kit, do you have anything to add to that?

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Or are you just gonna pull a Tim Allen and say same for me but double?

11:45

I don't remember it.

11:47

You don't...

11:49

How do you not remember?

11:51

This wasn't so long ago.

11:54

We watched this show since I moved into the apartment I'm currently in.

11:58

This is five years or less ago, sir.

12:01

That's too long.

12:02

That's too long.

12:03

Okay.

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More than two seconds.

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It's too long.

12:06

Fine.

12:07

We'll move on to something more recent then.

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M.A.S.

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Yeah.

12:12

So, once again, M.A.S.

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I was either...

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Well, let's see.

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M.A.S.H. ran for...

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I wanna say 11 seasons?

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Something like that?

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Uh...

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Again, this show started in the 70s.

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I did not initially find it as a kid.

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As a teenager, my neighbor liked it and I didn't really understand why at the time.

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Because my emotional maturity and comedy maturity is much slower than most people.

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And so...

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Came back to it.

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I started watching it again a year or two ago.

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Didn't watch the whole thing.

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Just watched a few episodes.

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And I'm like, "Yeah, this is kind of like a good show."

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And then I decided to get it again.

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And this time I got it on DVDs and we ended up being able to remove the laugh tracks.

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And we've been watching it.

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I think we're in what season...

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Eight?

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Seven?

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Something like that.

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Something like that.

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Uh...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're...

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We're past some of the big cast changes that took place after season four.

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Spoilers.

13:28

Hmm.

13:29

Given that we watch this show basically every Friday night, what is it that you like about M.A.S.H.?

13:38

Because I'll just tell you all this about Kit.

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It's very hard to get Kit to emotionally react to anything.

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And this could be because Moody Teenager or this could be just nature of his very personality.

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It takes a while for Kit to open up about stuff.

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And so when watching a movie or a TV show, most of the time, like we've said in previous conversations, I ask, "What did you think?" and he just says, "It good."

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So...

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Elaborate, sir, as to what it is that gets you laughing out loud at M.A.S.H. and what makes you want to keep watching it.

14:26

Comedy gold.

14:29

Comedy gold.

14:31

There...

14:32

There's always the two characters that have similar ideals and work together.

14:38

There's always the Colonel and Radar, the two funny guys, and then the two serious ones.

14:45

Yep.

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And there's a few other people scattered around.

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I would say that the Father and Klinger probably go together.

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Although...

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Yeah.

14:56

I didn't really think about it that way, but they do kind of serve a similar function.

15:00

Yeah.

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And they kind of come in as needed.

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They're...

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But it's still...

15:07

Again, this is also an ensemble show.

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You could try to take these characters out of like, and give them their own shows.

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And they did.

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In fact, there was a show called Aftermash.

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And it lasted one season.

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Hmm.

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Because it only had, I think, Colonel Potter, Klinger, and like one or two other people, and they were in a regular hospital.

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And it didn't work.

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Yeah.

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You need to have everybody to make it work.

15:40

Like, and the thing I'll say about MASH, legitimately funny show.

15:47

Yeah.

15:48

Even funnier without the laugh tracks, because half the time they wouldn't play the laugh tracks for some of the more subtle jokes.

15:54

But also, the fact that it can go from being lighthearted and funny to having very serious topics and having real character development moments.

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Where, for the most part, you don't see these people as human beings most of the time.

16:16

You see them as just being funny.

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But every, I want to say, at least every other episode, there are moments of humanity that ground the characters and make you feel like, you know what, maybe this did happen during the, like this could have been happening during the Korean War.

16:36

Yeah.

16:37

This could have been an actual unit.

16:39

Um, and you can see how things worked between the different characters and whatnot.

16:48

So it's a very funny show, but at times it's also a very serious show.

16:54

It takes place during a war.

16:56

Yeah.

16:57

Now, I do have a bit of a bias in a positive way towards Radar.

17:04

O'Reilly.

17:05

Um, I forgot what his first actual name is.

17:08

Uh, Gary?

17:09

No, that's, that's, that's the actor's name.

17:13

Oh.

17:14

Yeah.

17:15

Uh.

17:16

Gary Berghoff.

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Yeah.

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And he's from Connecticut.

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That's why I have a positive bias.

17:21

I can't remember Radar's first name.

17:23

Oh, well.

17:24

Man, it's used so little.

17:26

Yeah, it is used so little.

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I remember the, the person that he often contacts on the radio is Sparky.

17:34

Yeah.

17:35

And the teddy bear technically doesn't have an official name either.

17:39

But again, I don't know that there's really a show today that pulls off what MASH did.

17:49

It's not to say that there haven't been other good shows that are ensemble shows and, you know, have a great cast that works well together.

17:56

You know, you have Cheers, which I have to go back and watch at some point.

18:00

You have Friends.

18:01

You have, uh, Everybody Loves Raymond.

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All of those are really ensemble shows.

18:09

And I'm naming shows that obviously are, have been off the air for a while.

18:15

Now let's go to another ensemble show, but different.

18:20

Hmm.

18:21

Not comedy.

18:23

Let's talk about sci-fi, sir.

18:25

Let's go to Star Trek: The Next Generation.

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What is it?

18:30

After, now I will be fair.

18:32

I didn't introduce Kit to Star Trek TNG until after I had gotten basically to season two during my current watch through.

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And that's because it's not that season one is bad.

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It's just that the characters really haven't gelled as well.

18:51

Although I thought we watched it before though.

18:54

Yeah, we did watch some episode one, or season one.

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But really season two is where you start to see some of the more character development focused plots.

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You have the measure of a man which is debating whether or not Data is considered a sentient life form.

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Who has free will.

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Or if he's property.

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Very serious topic.

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You have other more light-hearted episodes where, you know, character...

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There's a virus that...

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This is actually from season one, so I don't think you saw it.

19:31

But there's a virus that infects the entire crew and basically makes them all drunk.

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And Wesley takes over all of engineering because of course he does.

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But again, every character gets their own moments in different episodes.

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So, Kit, what is it that you like about Star Trek: The Next Generation?

19:57

I like sci-fi.

19:59

You like sci-fi.

20:00

You like sci-fi.

20:01

But elaborate specifically on this show.

20:04

You like sci-fi, that's fine.

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But what about the execution of the sci-fi works well for you with this particular series?

20:16

It makes sense.

20:20

Kind of.

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It makes sense.

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Kind of.

20:23

It makes sense.

20:24

It makes sense in all... in the way all fictional science can make sense.

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Now, I will have you watch Star Trek: Voyager too, because I think that Voyager is a great successor to TNG.

20:41

But, okay, let's ask a simple question then.

20:46

Who, if you had to pick a favorite character for you, who would it be?

20:50

Uh...

20:52

Probably Data.

20:55

Probably Data.

20:56

What do you like about Data?

20:58

Not Data.

21:00

That's not his name.

21:01

Hmm.

21:02

Data.

21:04

He's funny when he doesn't mean to be funny.

21:08

He's very straightforward.

21:11

And he's an android.

21:13

He's an android.

21:15

Yep.

21:16

Does he remind you of yourself?

21:18

Probably.

21:20

Probably.

21:21

Maybe.

21:22

I don't know.

21:23

I think Data is a very unique character.

21:25

And he is...

21:26

At one point, I would have said that he was my favorite as well.

21:30

I like Geordi too.

21:32

Geordi's funny.

21:33

Well, Geordi and Data go well together.

21:35

Yeah.

21:36

A lot of times.

21:37

However, even as I've gotten older...

21:41

I have seen Star Trek: TNG multiple times at this point.

21:48

From when I originally watched it, I would say, yeah, like, I kind of saw myself more as Data.

21:54

I don't see myself as Picard.

21:57

But Picard has kind of become more of a favorite character for me as I've gotten older.

22:06

He has a very specific style of leadership.

22:13

He's not open to other people pitching in and, like, giving their opinions.

22:19

But at the same time, he knows that the burden of command is on him.

22:25

So there are times when people give him suggestions and he'll go with their plan.

22:32

And there are other times where somebody will object to something and he'll just flat out say,

22:38

"Your objections noted, we're doing this anyway."

22:41

And he's got a lot of depth to him that takes a while, again, to develop throughout the course of the series.

22:49

But you can tell that he's not as gruff or as stoic as he gives the appearance of being.

23:02

We just watched an episode where he ended up being stuck in a shuttle with Wesley for hours and hours.

23:09

And he used that moment to teach Wesley about a mistake that he made in his youth.

23:20

Yeah.

23:21

That he was still paying for in many ways.

23:25

So you wouldn't think that Picard, who openly states he's not good with children, would be able to have this very mature conversation with this teenager who is a boy genius and boy wonder that may or may not annoy the hell out of everyone around him.

23:49

For me, Picard really sells it. And I think, to your point, there is sci-fi that is not that believable.

23:58

And what Gene Roddenberry did a great job of doing when he developed the original Star Trek, which, okay, the original Star Trek, not as believable.

24:09

Still a good show, but definitely a bit dated as well.

24:15

TNG, I think, still holds up today.

24:18

And it's because of Roddenberry's vision of humanity finally getting over their themselves and seeing each other as a collective rather than seeing each other as individual society.

24:36

Well, gee, I thought that was the least believable part of it.

24:39

Well, that is the least believable part.

24:41

But it's what that enables that makes the rest of it believable.

24:45

If humanity could get past all of that stuff, and if humanity could ensure that basic human needs are taken care of and all of that, then this could be a future that's possible.

25:01

And I think that that's really a unique take on things.

25:05

All right.

25:07

Last but not least, for this specific episode, let's talk about Moida, she wrote.

25:14

Moida, she wrote.

25:15

Moida, she wrote.

25:16

The Mel Brooks version.

25:18

It's Moida.

25:20

Moida, she wrote.

25:23

This I can say I grew up on this show.

25:26

Don't get me wrong.

25:27

The show existed, I think, before I was born.

25:31

Or maybe even came out the same year I was born.

25:33

I'm not sure.

25:34

But we had a little black and white CRT TV with the rabbit ears.

25:42

With the long metal poles on it.

25:44

That sat in our kitchen.

25:46

And every Sunday night, we would be watching Murder, She Wrote as we ate Sunday dinner.

25:54

It was just what we did.

25:56

And then later in life, when X-Files came out, we would then go and watch X-Files at 9pm.

26:02

Because, well, X-Files was the edgy show.

26:04

X-Files, you know, was a little bit scary and creepy.

26:08

And so you couldn't put it on until after 9pm.

26:10

You had to have it on at 9pm.

26:13

But a very good show as well.

26:15

But one that you haven't really had much exposure to.

26:18

So we won't talk about that show until you've had a chance to really get to watch it.

26:23

But Murder, She Wrote.

26:25

You've seen a few episodes.

26:26

And again, you seem to like it.

26:30

Murder, She Wrote is the opposite of an ensemble show.

26:33

It usually centers around one main character whose name is Jessica Beatrice Fletcher.

26:41

Or J.B. Fletcher as she's known in her books.

26:45

And so she's an author, a former teacher, author, who writes mystery novels.

26:50

And therefore she has to do research on murder and poison.

26:55

And all these things that the average person doesn't know about.

26:59

And because of this, whenever a crime happens, which happens all the time around her,

27:04

she usually ends up having a hand in solving it.

27:09

And this joke has been made by comedians and stuff, but I'm still going to make it anyway.

27:14

Would not want to be friends with Jessica Fletcher or Columbo or any of these people.

27:25

Dr. Sloan from Diagnosis Murder.

27:26

These are not people I would want to visit or be friends with because the per capita death rate around them goes up sharply.

27:37

Yeah, but if you're an important person that's friends with them, then you don't die.

27:43

Yeah, but this is me we're talking about. Why would I be the important person in...

27:49

So based upon the episodes that you have seen of Murder, She Wrote, what is it you like about that as a show?

27:59

Because it's very different than Star Trek. It's very different than MASH. It's very different than the A-Team.

28:07

What made you like it enough that you wanted to keep watching it?

28:14

I don't know. It's entertaining.

28:17

Okay, it's entertaining. But what makes it entertaining to you?

28:22

It can be funny sometimes. There are people getting murdered.

28:32

Yes, we do know how you like people getting murdered.

28:35

This is something that Kit is...

28:38

I mean, look, you remember our Valentine's Day slash wedding, you know, episode that is the one that was just previous to this one.

28:47

There was lots of discussion of decapitation and/or murder in that episode.

28:53

So...

28:54

And just the stories are good and creative and stuff.

29:00

Yeah.

29:02

And I like the fact that the character of Jessica Fletcher is not just like...

29:09

She doesn't come across as a know-it-all.

29:12

But she doesn't come across as like a weak airhead type of person.

29:19

She stands up to people in authority when they're like, "Lady, like, you just need to leave."

29:25

And she's like, "Oh, fine. I'm leaving.

29:28

But I will be back and I will have the evidence to prove that my nephew Grady is innocent for the fifth time that he's been accused of murder."

29:41

Or a fellow author in one episode.

29:43

Yeah.

29:44

I like her as a character.

29:46

I do like some of the side characters.

29:48

Obviously, some of the regulars in Cabot Cove.

29:51

I do regret the fact that Sheriff Tupper moves away and retires.

29:58

You do get, you know, Sheriff Metzger replaces him and is also a bumbling idiot, but for different reasons.

30:08

I like the fact that they gave him different reasons for being a bumbling idiot.

30:12

Amos Tupper's reason for being a little bit less there is he's getting older.

30:21

It's a small town, you know, and he loves to eat.

30:25

You know, he's a small town cop. He's not used to dealing with murders.

30:32

And so he comes to these wild conclusions.

30:36

Now, you flip to Sheriff Metzger.

30:40

Well, Sheriff Metzger, he jumps to the wrong conclusions too, but that's because he used to be a city cop.

30:48

So he comes to Cabot Cove thinking, you know, this is going to be easy.

30:55

You know, this is a small town. What could possibly go wrong?

30:59

Well, you're living in a town with J.B. Fletcher.

31:03

What is going to happen?

31:06

Moira! Moira's going to happen!

31:10

Moira's going to be the most foul.

31:11

Yes.

31:11

So, overall though, I think the character of Jessica Fletcher is what really sells, obviously, the show.

31:20

If it hadn't been for Angela Lansbury, I'm not talking about the reboot with Jamie Lee Curtis, which is supposed to be good.

31:28

I haven't seen it. In some ways I don't want to, but I eventually will.

31:32

But Angela Lansbury just was the right woman to be playing that role.

31:39

She was able to bring the wit and charm necessary, but also some of the cleverness and the daring that was necessary for such a character.

31:55

She pulled it off nicely. Some would say that that was probably the greatest role in her very long and storied career, was getting to play that role.

32:06

I think overall, though, the thing that all of these shows have in common, besides being shows between the 70s and the 90s, which also have a certain look and feel to them.

32:21

Just the way they were shot, the way that they were written, etc.

32:26

But I think there are some common things across all of these shows that we can point to.

32:31

First, characters.

32:35

The characters are, even when they're stereotypical, even when they're meant to fit a certain role,

32:46

they're well developed over time.

32:48

They're funny.

32:50

They are more than just one dimensional or two dimensional characters.

32:55

They have depth.

32:56

Even like if you look at M.A.S.H., Radar O'Reilly starts off as a side character, but eventually as the show goes on, they give him depth.

33:08

They give him humanity.

33:09

Same thing for all the characters on the A-Team.

33:12

Yeah.

33:13

They have certain personality traits that they stick to, but there's more to them.

33:19

The other thing that makes all of these things good are great stories.

33:26

Yeah.

33:27

Not every Star Trek TNG episode is a great episode.

33:33

Not every Murder, She Wrote episode is a great episode.

33:37