*music*
So yeah, we're a week late.
*makes noise*
Uh, but we were on vacation, so
we're justified.
*makes noise*
That's all you have to say for
yourself?
Oh no, I-I gave him a door.
Cheese quesadilla.
You know what?
Somebody is going to try to
send us a cheese quesadilla at
some point.
They're gonna be like, "What's
your mailing address? We want
to send you a cheese quesadilla."
Maybe it's a hypothetical $1,000
cheese quesadilla.
What would be in a hypothetical
$1,000 cheese quesadilla?
The most expensive stinky cheeses.
And-and probably gold leaf.
Yeah.
And then there'd probably just
be like a diamond that you-like
is on top just as decoration
that you pick off.
*makes noise*
You know, cause obviously you
can't eat diamond.
At least it would not be
intelligent for somebody to try
to eat diamond unless they
wanted to lose all their teeth.
Which brings us full circle to,
uh, you know, around when we
started this podcast.
So anyway, uh, yeah, we're on
vacation and I-I drew some
inspiration from some things
that we saw on vacation.
First was Alien Java.
*laughs*
Which was an interesting coffee
place.
Um, very crowded and it has
like three businesses in it
that all managed to survive in
the same space.
So it's a coffee house. Like,
they sell books and like
spiritual stuff. And then they
also sell jewelry.
Yeah.
It's interesting.
And they had a Pac-Man machine.
And then when we left, we saw
the coolest UAP ever at like 5:15
in the morning.
Except, uh, it wasn't- it was
only a UAP until I pulled up
the internet when we got back
and-and discovered what it
really was.
And I had a theory what it was
and it was a rocket launch.
We got to see a rocket launch.
It was- it was definitely
creepy though, because we- we
had a hard time leaving for a
variety of reasons we won't get
into.
But, yeah, yeah, okay, anyway.
Uh, but we got outside and I
happened to look up and I'm
like, "What the hell is that?"
And we were just kind of
staring at this thing. I got a
few pictures of it. But, um-
We got pictures of a real life
alien UFO.
Well, no, now it's identified.
We- we know that it was-
Nah, they don't have to know
that. You just cut that part
out.
So anyway. So speaking of UAP,
UFO, um, you know, we've-
We've hinted at discussing this
topic in the past and really
haven't taken the time that it
properly deserves. So-
Aliens. Aliens. Aliens. Real
aliens. As in from off the
world. What do you think about
aliens, sir?
I think that they are alien.
Okay. Uh, and that we probably
have no idea what they look
like and we're
probably completely off. Okay.
That right there is exactly
where my brain was starting to
go. I'm
surprised we're on the same
wavelength as this. I think
that it is- first of all, like,
so have you heard of
something called the Drake
equation? No. Okay. So the
Drake equation is, uh, this
idea of a set of
variables that need to- that
you could use if you knew in
order to calculate the amount
of
intelligent civilizations that
could communicate by radio,
basically. By ways that we can
detect.
Because still a lot of stuff
goes over radio. Uh, that's
really the only way, like, and-
and until we
discover some kind of subspace
communication, it's all radio.
So it's like the planet has to
be of a
certain- so first of all, how
many stars have planets? How
many of those planets have life?
How many of those
planets have life that's
intelligent? How, uh, how many
planets have intelligent life
that have developed
radio communication? How long
do they on average establish
radio communication? Because it
kind of
goes up and down. Like, right
now, our radio communication
amount is going down. So all of
that
stuff goes into the Drake
equation. But I'm inclined to
agree with you that we tend to
like- like, we're
narcissists here. Yeah. Let's
be honest. Let's be honest. We
like to make ugly aliens. Yeah,
like,
we're- we're narcissists. Not
just that we want to make ugly
aliens, but think about it.
Like, if you
think about alien designs in
movies, they tend to have arms.
They tend to have legs. They
tend to walk in
an upright mode like we do. Or-
or have tentacles. Yeah, but
that's- that's an outlier. I
mean, for the most
part, like, you watch Men in
Black, the majority of the
aliens are upright and walking
around.
Yeah. You watch the X-Files.
The majority of the aliens are
like your stereotypical grays.
Uh, you know, that they have
the big bulbous heads and they
got the big eyes and all that.
Yeah. Oh, okay.
Um, and then, you know, you do
have some aliens that are a
little bit different in some
horror films and
stuff like that. But really-
Like aliens. Like- we're really
narcissistic. Now, you could
argue, well,
intelligent life would have to
grow in a gravity similar to
our planet. Well, that's not
necessarily
true. Yeah. Hey, dolphins are
intelligent. Well, and we
constantly downplay their
intelligence. Yeah,
we take it for granted that we
are the smartest thing on this
planet because we've built
civilizations and we've
been able to- But- And then
there's the one dinosaur that's
living underground. We- we live
on the land.
Like, and we have opposable
thumbs.
Like, dolphins and whales might
be exceedingly smart and
intelligent, but they haven't,
like, what are you going to do?
Like, learn to use tools and
make iron under the water?
That's not going to happen.
Like, so, I don't know.
I tend to think that, one, we
underestimate the intelligence
of certain creatures on the
planet.
And don't get me wrong, like,
there are some people that like
to deify animals and make them
out to be, like, all the
animals are, like, are of equal
intelligence and emotional
intelligence to us.
I don't know about that.
I mean, don't get me wrong,
cats and dogs definitely have
some level of emotional
intelligence.
I don't think a snail does,
though.
Yeah, I don't think a snail has
that much emotional
intelligence.
I don't think the average fish
has that much emotional
intelligence.
I really don't.
I mean, fish are more
intelligent than we give them
credit for as well, though.
Yeah, they are, but tiny, teeny,
teeny, tiny brain.
So, I think that because we
tend to want to view alien life
through the lens of, well, it's
got to look like us.
It has to.
Versus like, and there have
been some shows that go outside
of this lane.
Like, you look at Star Trek.
You look at, what was it, Farscape,
where sometimes the intelligent
life is like an electric cloud.
That's the form that's the form
that's the form that's the form
that the life takes.
That's the size of a spaceship
that you could beam into.
You know?
So, there are definitely
situations like that.
There's another alien variation
that is also used sometimes.
Okay.
It's just like the really tiny
floating thing that built a
mechanical suit around itself.
Yeah.
Those show up sometime.
Yeah.
So, I don't think, I'm inclined
to agree with you, I don't
think alien life, even
intelligent alien life that
could communicate with us,
necessarily looks like we will
expect it to look.
There could already be aliens
on this planet, and we wouldn't
even know axolotls are aliens.
It's true.
I mean, there's no reason not
to believe it, except for the
fossil record.
But, you know, but that's
another good point.
Like, there could be some off-world
life that's living here on the
planet and just kind of keeping
tabs on us.
And for good reason.
I mean, look at us.
We fight over anything.
And everything.
And we lie about so much.
Like, the governments lie.
The religions lie.
Everything is like...
And, you know, we're still,
despite the fact that, you know,
we've signed anti-proliferation
treaties, and we've scaled back
the production of nuclear
weapons, and we highly, you
know, regulate what countries
are allowed to have nuclear
weapons.
And really, when push comes to
shove, it only takes one crisis
for that button to get pushed
by someone.
And then we're all dead.
Yeah.
Because then...
I don't think the aliens would
come to our planet.
The method of protecting
ourselves in regards to nuclear
stuff is called mutually
assured destruction.
Yeah.
It's everyone who has nukes has
enough nukes to where even if
only one gets fired by one
country, everyone's going to
basically be able to destroy
each other.
Yeah.
It's a wonderful plan.
Hey, somebody fired a nuke.
Let's just take out the whole
planet.
Yep.
Sounds like a great idea.
So, um, I can understand aliens
being concerned.
Because nuclear power might be,
like, one step lower.
Like, nuclear explosions might
be one step lower than whatever,
like, the next evolution is.
The next jump.
We don't know what it is.
But, like, it's one thing, like,
alright, a nuke and the
consequences of nukes will
destroy life here.
But that's one step before we'd
be able to...
Imagine we find a middle matter
that's not matter or anti-matter
and it can contain both.
Yeah.
Then we'd have some real
problems.
Yeah, because, you see, if I'm
an alien and I have an advanced
culture off of this planet,
like, light years away, and I'm
just watching, I don't really
care if these people blow
themselves up.
Because that doesn't affect me.
And they're clearly not
intelligent enough to get far
enough into space to bother me.
But if we go whatever the next
level of energy or the next
level of technology is beyond
that, oh, well, now it could
potentially nuke the whole
solar system or whatever the
equivalent is.
It wouldn't be a nuke.
But we'll call it a space nuke,
okay?
So, we developed space nukes.
Space nukes.
Well, they wouldn't be called
space nukes, but I'm calling
them space nukes in that they're
the equivalent destructive
power that we can imagine of a
nuclear weapon.
But, like, an order of
magnitude that's, like,
millions of times larger.
I feel like the next type of
energy we should be trying to
get our hands on is anti-matter.
It's near impossible to do, but
if you do it, you get a lot of
energy.
You also...
How do you contain...
I said it'd be really funny if
there was a middle matter that
can contain matter and anti-matter.
Yeah.
And if we found that, if we
made it or found it, then we'd
be unstoppable, except that
there's going to be another
book tier of physics.
But back to my point.
The point is that I think if
there is any alien life on the
planet, first of all, very good
at hiding.
Second of all, whether or not
it's involved with the
government and the hypothetical
theory of the lizard people,
which I'm not going to get into
because that's way too large of
a conspiracy theory to deal
with in this.
But I think they'd just be
chilling and watching what we're
doing.
Maybe they would find a human-like
disguise to come out.
Or, you know, they're just
hiding in plain sight and look
like an insect.
I mean, that could be too.
I mean, or it could all be
drones.
It could all be mechanical
things that are coming to
explore the planet on behalf of,
like, other species far away
because they don't want to risk
being hurt themselves.
And especially given, you know,
the attitude of us towards
things that we don't know or
understand generally being, we'll
blow that up.
Or enslave it.
Or torture it to make it give
us its technological secrets.
I don't think that they would
want to send themselves here.
Maybe they would say, send
drones.
So...
And then we'll blow that one up.
Yeah, then we'll blow the
drones up and the aliens will
be like, oh, well, that's some
more drones that were lost.
So, yeah, I don't know what to
make of it.
Like, as a kid, I used to be
really into the X-Files, which
I love.
I still love the show.
But I'm not, like, that level
of believer of, like, alien
contact.
I'm...
I still like the phrase, I want
to believe.
And what I mean by that is that
I'm skeptical at this point.
Maybe not entirely skeptical.
Like, maybe not, like, discount
everything as always having
some kind of explanation.
But being at least willing to
say, not every bright thing I
see in the sky is a UAP or UFO.
And not every report that I see
or hear is actually real.
Especially with digital
manipulation being... and
visual effects being what they
are.
Damn.
And that's part of the reason
why, when we were looking up
that morning, and I see this
bright thing in the sky, I'm
like, by our current
understanding of what this
thing is, it's an unidentified
aerial phenomena.
So it is a UAP.
But I'm pretty sure that's a
rocket or a meteor or something.
And my instinct on rocket was
based upon seeing pictures of,
like, from NASA, how the plumes
come off of it.
And it was also kind of going
in a straight line.
Yeah.
You know, so...
But I don't know.
I'm of the belief that there's
something else out there
somewhere.
And maybe it came here.
Maybe it is here.
Maybe it's not.
Maybe there's all sorts of
things that have visited here.
I do not discount any of that.
I just believe that 90% of what
you hear, especially when the
government gets involved, is
complete and utter bullshit.
How about you?
Where do you stand?
About what?
About where you stand on the
belief of intelligent life
contacting us, being within
contacting range.
Well, I think we all know that
the only time they're going to
contact us is when they have to
clear the space for a new hyperspace
bypass.
Thanks.
Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Galaxy.
Great book.
Okay.
Anyway.
I don't know.
It would be nice if, you know,
there was such a thing as, like,
the Star Trek idea of the
United Federation of Planets.
We're like...
And then we get left out of it.
Well, we're getting left out of
it because we're either not
technologically mature enough
or we're not mature enough as a
society in general.
Oh, I would go with the latter
first.
Oh, definitely.
I mean, the fact that we have
people who make it their
purpose in life just to go
online and upset other people,
that's a pretty, like, toxic
thing if you look at it
objectively.
Well, you've got to remember
that every single world leader's
job is to go out there and lie
to millions of people.
Yeah, for the most part.
I mean, like, what does that
say about our society?
Uh, it says we suck.
We don't even get along with
each other.
Like, we don't even, like,
operate as, like, one peoples.
And that's not to say that I
want to get rid of cultural
distinctions.
It's to say, though, that, like,
we can't function in peace as
an overall world.
Yeah.
Like, I'm not talking, like,
minor conflicts between, like,
two tribal, like, groups in the
middle of nowhere in the jungle
or in the desert.
I'm saying, like, multi-trillion
dollar wars using lots of
expensive equipment that the
United States happens to make
most of.
I'm just saying war is our
greatest export.
And until we get to the point
where war is not an export and
war is not the standard way of
getting resources, even if it's
an underhanded brower, like, we're
not going to achieve what we
need to emotionally,
intellectually, or societally.
And certainly not technologically,
to where any alien species
would want anything the hell to
do with us.
If they exist.
Which, again, laws of
probability are with us on
existence of other intelligent
life.
Or we're all in a snow globe.
An alien snow globe.
So we're breathing water with
snowflakes in it right now?
Yes.
Oxygen is water.
Are you saying oxygen is a myth,
sir?
No, air is liquid and liquid is
air.
I mean, fluid dynamics do play
a key part in, like,
atmospheric conditions and
predicting stuff.
Like, no, this is true.
Like, the operation of water is
very similar to the operation
of air.
Yeah, I know.
That's why we're all in a giant
snow globe.
So what happens if we get shook?
And who's doing the shaking?
It might be like an electric shaker.
Like, you push a button.
It's an alien snow globe, you
know?
It might be different from what
we think of as a snow globe.
But you want to know what I
think would happen?
What?
It would make all the
politicians angry and make them
start a world war.
That's what pushing the button
for the snow globe does.
really, what you're saying is a
nuclear war on Earth would be
like a tiny little fireworks
display for the aliens in
charge of the snow globe.
Yeah.
So, like, and maybe the time
doesn't work the same.
So, like, for us, like, it's,
you know, like, it's been, like,
hundreds of millions of years
that the Earth has existed.
For them, it's been, like, you
know, five minutes.
And then they're going to shake
it, and then the nukes go off,
and then they just wait again.
Yeah.
For the Earth to populate
itself.
Yeah.
And then every single alternate
universe is just another snow
globe.
From the factory.
Oh, no, not the factory.
Oh, no.
From the alien snow globe
factory.
No, just the factory.
Look up SCP, the factory.
It's an interesting, uh,
interesting, uh, company.
No.
That works on an interdimensional
level.
Thank you to the SCP Foundation
for your documentation of this
anomalous thing.
Um, if you don't know what the
SCP Foundation is, please, by
all means, look up, by all
means, look up the SCP
Foundation.
And just be warned.
Not all SCPs are suitable for
all audiences, and some are, in
fact, very, very disturbing.
You have been warned.
Yay.
So, your running theory of the
world right now is that we are
inside the alien equivalent of
a snow globe.
No, I was just saying that'd be
funny.
Oh.
Yeah, it would.
Yeah, it would be amusing.
I also wonder, like, what first
contact would be like.
Like, how, what's the most
intelligent way for a species
that might look like a blob to
us and not speak or understand
our language at all?
How do you learn to communicate?
And, like, to say, first of all,
I'm peaceful.
Second of all, I'm not just a
slime mold.
I'm intelligent.
And third, to then begin to
have, like, actual
conversations without, you know,
the world destroying itself
because aliens.
You could draw.
I'm saying as a larger rule,
like, okay, you, you, first of
all, a slime creature might not
be able to draw, might not have
hands.
You're, you're being very human
normative.
If it's a slime, then it could,
like, it could, like, have, it
could stick something in itself,
right?
You don't know that sticking
something in it might, like,
break the cytoplastic wall or
whatever the equivalent is.
And then it just spews out and
you kill it.
How much technology does the
slime have?
Look, like, clearly enough
technology to get to Earth.
Well, then surely it must have
some kind of lights that it
could use to communicate.
What if it operates on a
certain type of electromagnetic
spectrum that we can't yet
perceive?
Well, that's our own fault.
You see, this is, like, this is
where first contact situations
cause such a big issue.
One, obviously it'll scare the
crap out of the public to
realize that, oh, aliens are
real.
Which is probably why the
government hasn't told us that
aliens are real.
I guarantee you they know.
No, I'm kidding.
Slightly.
I'm mostly kidding.
I don't think there's a grand
conspiracy between aliens and
the governments and all this
stuff.
Maybe there is.
I mean, I wouldn't find it hard
to believe.
Because, like, what would you
do?
You would go to the power
structure in order to, like,
but then the power structure
would want to retain power.
And obviously interplanetary
communication and collaboration
wouldn't allow them to retain
their power.
Because now we've got to deal
with other politicians from
other planets.
And who knows what the hell
they're like?
You know?
But no, I always just wonder,
like, what happens with first
contact?
Like, is first contact, like,
the alien abduction stories of,
like, people getting abducted
and weird stuff happening?
How do you know that first
contact hasn't already happened?
I'm not saying it hasn't.
I don't know.
You see, like, but there's so
much secrecy around the topic.
Because, one, we don't want our
enemies to know our methods and
capabilities in terms of
military.
But we also don't want them to
know our weaknesses.
So it's like, oh, hey, we have
all these unidentified things.
Well, if we're admitting to the
world these are things we can't
identify with our technology.
And it turns out a bunch of
that stuff is actually stuff
sent out by our enemies.
Then we're telling our enemies
we don't know how to detect
their shit.
And that's not good.
But it also means that if there
were any actual first contact
activities that happened
between alien civilizations and
governments.
You would be in a situation
that those governments would be
very, very protective of that.
And we would never find out.
Like, there are so many people
online that are like, oh,
disclosure's coming.
They're going to give us the
real information, finally.
Like, there is nothing that
leads me to believe that.
Like, even if something like
that was happening.
They can't even get their own
story straight about, like, the
nature of UAPs and the history
of us covering them up.
Like, there are clear facts in
a historical record about, like,
different things they
intentionally covered up.
Different stuff tied to unidentified
stuff.
And they're like, no.
Like, that was legitimate
research.
It happened.
And you go, but there's
documentation that refutes what
you're saying.
Yeah, but this is the narrative
we're going with.
Okay.
Thanks.
So, yeah.
Like, am I inclined to believe
first contact has happened
already and that, like, there's
a big conspiracy?
I don't know.
I don't know if there's enough
proof in any of the records to
give credence to that, at least
at this point in time.
And that's being as objective
as I can be.
Believe me, I would love if
some of the crazy stories that
some of the whistleblowers have
said were true and we were able
to, like, I would love if there
was a UFO the size of multiple
football fields just hiding
under a building in the middle
of Europe somewhere.
Or in South America.
I would love if that was true.
But, eh, proof.
And there isn't any.
So, I think the big question,
though, is, again, like, first
contact, like, so you're Joe
Human.
Hi, Joe.
Hi, Bob.
Yeah.
So, we're Joe and Bob.
And to be as stupid as possible,
we, the wonderful, hyper-intelligent
Joe and Bob, decide we're going
to go fishing.
Yeah.
And we're going to have some
beer.
Yeah.
Because, and this is something
we talked about when we were on
vacation.
The most standard situation, or
stereotypical, I won't say this
is actually the most normative
way that this happens.
But the most stereotypical way
that people run into aliens is
they're out fishing and getting
drunk.
And then they see something.
Or they're out fishing.
Maybe they're not drunk.
And they see something.
Or something does something to
them.
So, you and I are Joe and Bob.
And this craft that maybe it
looks like a box.
Maybe it looks like a rectangle.
Maybe it looks like a sphere.
Maybe it looks like something.
We don't really know.
But some kind of thing lands in
front of us.
It's clearly not something we
can identify.
It's not a helicopter.
It's not a drone.
It's none of that stuff that
you would identify as being
human-made.
Maybe it is.
Maybe it's some top-secret
government thing messing with
you.
But to all intents and purposes,
this is something you do not
recognize.
It drops to the ground in front
of you.
Some kind of hatch or door
opens up.
And time and space around it is
not distorting in such a way to
lead you to believe that the
atmosphere or environment
inside the ship would be
destructive to the world as we
know it.
And time and space and physics
and all that.
And so you walk up to it and
you see some kind of creature
that is indescribable to normal
thought.
Maybe you can describe it, but
it's not like your typical
alien that you would think of.
Maybe it doesn't have a mouth.
Maybe you don't see any eyes.
Maybe it doesn't have any
organs or appendages that you
recognize.
And this thing starts doing
something.
Like, maybe if it's jelly, it
starts wiggling around.
Or maybe, like, it...
Like...
What do you do?
Because any false move could be,
like, a direct insult to them.
Like, what...
What do you do?
Whatever you do, if they don't
have opposable thumbs, don't
wave.
Aliens hate creatures with
opposable thumbs.
Where did you acquire this
knowledge?
Are you saying that aliens are
biased against things with
opposable thumbs?
What about things with opposable
tails?
There are creatures that have
opposable...
What about creatures with opposable,
like, feet?
Like, with, like, toes that can
wrap around a tree.
What about that?
I made it up.
Okay, so...
But, like, the whole idea of
first contact is kind of scuffed,
to use your modern terminology.
Not that I say that.
You have.
I know.
I don't say it that much
anymore, though.
Yeah, because I've used it one
too many times.
It's not cool anymore.
I've shown that I have too much
riz.
I deserve that.
Anyway.
Wait, hold on.
Hold on.
No.
Don't do it.
You clapped your hand right
next to my ear.
That was so loud.
Anyway.
I'm just saying, the whole idea
of aliens and contacting them...
Like, we presume it's just
going to be so easy.
We're just going to, like, send
them a bunch of math.
That's universal constants of
the universe.
Or we'll send them, like, tones
that are in primes.
But what if they can't perceive
sound the way that we do?
What if they don't perceive
light or anything else the way
that we do?
What if they're so different
and so far removed that, like,
they'll get the record from,
like, the Voyager probe.
Take one look at it and be like,
hey, it's a frisbee.
You know?
Like, they might not even know
it's a record.
And yeah, there's instructions
that should be able to instruct
them it's a record.
Like, there's a little thing
showing how the record will
work.
Yeah.
But even then, how would they
even make sense of anything?
So, I don't know.
It's just an interesting thing
to think about.
The nature of life, the
universe, and everything.
You want to know what would be
really funny?
What?
If what happened in pixels
happens.
No!
It's not impossible.
Well, that was a high note to
end things on.
A reference to an Adam Sandler
film.
Anyway, so if you have any
thoughts about aliens or alien
abduction or anything like that.
Or alien, the movie.
Yeah.
Like, that's a whole different
conversation.
Feedback@nontopical.com is
the place where you can
communicate with us.
And if you happen to get any
value out of the conversations
that we randomly have.
Then, by all means, go to
ko-fi.com/nontopical.
And toss us whatever amount
indicates to you the value that
you received.
So, if you were entertained
enough for a dollar, then toss
us a dollar.
If you were entertained enough
for $15, toss us $15.
If you were entertained enough
for our hypothetical $1,000.
Then we are really grateful.
But anyway, because I don't
know that we're that
entertaining.
We're entertaining to us and
that's really all that matters.
He's entertaining to him.
Boo.
Anyway.
So, aliens.
Are they out to get us?
Is the government hiding
something about them?
Or are they going to just
destroy the planet to make way
for a hyperspace bypass?
Let us know.
Because we don't know.
Any other thoughts, sir?
42.
42?
42.
Alright, that's it.
We're...
Goodbye, everybody.
Goodbye.
Bye.